Curse

LifesRestorer · Dec 27, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

izzy needs to either stop buffing heroes or remove heroes from pvp.

he wants to keep HBers happy (lolz HB) so he makes hero AI better, and this throws the ability for heroes to use weapon spells off the board making ha dumb(er), as they can use it better than the most experienced players.

I don't give a shit if they can tease some fire eles or interrupt a monk's channeling, normal people can do that.
But when every target I swap to is greeted by a blind on impact or a weapon of warding it gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing annoying and near impossible to kill stuff.

ensoriki · Dec 27, 2008, 05:11 AM // 05:11

I am a professional noob, and I agree with this thread.

Heroes r lame.

Monk Gsb · Dec 27, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truegen

HA shouldn't be about "make a build that counters smiteway and go go go farm first 3 maps", it should be about "how can I make it to HoH and win". If I followed your backwards strategy I'd just bring 6 mesmers and 2 monks all with anti-melee hexes. Oops, here comes HoH match and we have to spike down the Ghostly...GG dood

(to your 1st bit, i agree with you, ai should not be better then a person, but its a program and its the programers that tell it to do things, it is not told how fast to do it, just to do it. so its the programmers fault not the hero's but meh we all know ppl like izzy phail)

but to the quote.

HA is always (since old school holding change) about "make a build that counters XXXXXmetaway and gogogo farm ALL maps" if you followed my "backwards" strategy and had a brain you would realise that KD + fire ele's > all on alter caps / HoH (the "chubbyway" ,2 R/W + 2 fire ele's, meta proved that) so think out side the box, realy, whats good for pressure in ha... ?

aoe,
kd,
hexes,

ok so u dont wanna go hexes because u become a gimmick build, so you choose aoe and kd.

so take 1 ES warrior, 2 fire ele's, 1 bbot with a spike skill (to releave pressure off your backline from the sins / general melee), 1 mesmer so u can do funstuff to monks / ele's / ghost ect.

then think monks, and please think on the monks, what just got buffed to hell ?....

PnH

with a 3 monk backline you dont need the heals that RC gives, so you can take a SoD, PnH support (SnH is fun), Hb/infuse.

then you have your aoe pressure, aoe spike, kd pressure, kd spike, blind, block, BIGHEALZ and mesmer shutdown, ohhh what fun.

OR

3 mesmers with interupts diversion shame and anti mellee and all have SoC,
3 necro's with wail, and anti mellee and all have soc and snares.
2 monks with rc and hb.
cause thats fun too.... :|

oh and borat, you say you have made XXXX ammount of sucessfull builds then go make one to counter smiteway AND hold halls, because your sooo goood at multi-tasking, 1 rule tho, it cant be a spike build.

lol goood luck with that.

Dronte · Dec 27, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk Gsb

imagination has gone... (tbh it went when ppl were QQing about R/D's but meh)

list skills that make the smiteway build.
list skills that counter said build.
(take out shit skills from counter skills)
make a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing counter build that can kill things.
test.
find problems where your team fails ( problems with the build NOT THE PLAYERS)
test.
fix any final problems.
test.
rickroll all teams you find and then QQ less.

but you wont do that cause ha is ha, and people are to lazy that they just want to follow meta counter builds.

and if u wanna get a build going, i have 1 word for you

BLOCK !!!!!!!!1111!!1!one

Becase 2 teases and 2 power drains (at least) have a counter.
Ok, go run dual DA or aegis. WOOOPPS interupted all the time. OK I'll put my guardian/WoW up.. WOOPS interrupted! Area interrupts are so balanced!! Try to do something.

Killed u man · Dec 27, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk Gsb

oh and borat, you say you have made XXXX ammount of sucessfull builds then go make one to counter smiteway AND hold halls, because your sooo goood at multi-tasking, 1 rule tho, it cant be a spike build.

lol goood luck with that.

14 Consecutive with balanced just 2 days ago (2W, Range, Dom, , SH and Rit)

Done, next task please?

It's funny how you TOTALLY miss the point, but I'll, once again try and lay it out for you:

It is NOT about wether or not you can build wars against it, or wether or not you can beat it. ANY build can be build wars'ed, that's a fact not an assumption. ANY build can also be beaten, that's also a fact, not an assumption.

However, CAN YOU BEAT IT (Build Wars against it) with a RELATIVE HIGH chance of winning, aswell as being competitive?

No, you can't.

We with [Dent] (We rolled top HA teams, so don't say we're bad at balanced, cuz then you're pretty much calling all these so called top HA guild terribad) BEAT 99% of the Hways we meet till HoH. It's is always 20 minute matches tough. Ok, not always, we also take 'em down in under 2 minutes every now and then, but the point is:

With 5 defensive characters, 2 of which are heroes which can also be used as insane shutdown (Once again, getting teased on Infuse Health 3 times a match hurts our infuser), aswell as 2 of the 3 remaining bars usually backlining, you're simply NOT going to take them down.

IF you manage to shutdown the real monks, you STILL got to shutdown:
-Either 2 Smiters (How do you shut them down? They don't rely on channeling, and they will shut YOU down, locked hero on mesmer = bye bye shame and diversion + you can't fake cast a hero)
-Or 2 Me/Rt's (I'll be glad to find the guy who can GUARANTEE PD's, Dshots on 0.6 s casts)
-Combination of both
You're simply NOT going to shut these down.

BUT assume you got a team full of Monk GSB's, and they're so good, they manage to FULL shut these characters down.

You STILL got an earth ele, usually with WoW aswell, to worry about, 2 Frontliners backlining (Hammer or Palm strike both RAPE when it comes to backlining, perma-cripple, aswell as kd spam) and simply not collapsing yourself.

Yes, it happens, I know, heroway gets beat alot, BUT you're also forgetting the experience/skill difference:

[Dent] a R10 experienced guild, aswell as keYs, leeloof's teams, etcs..., have SO MUCH TROUBLE simply beating a PvE guild that formed a teaseway. That's just redicilous.

If HA was about skill, and not about build (which it has never really been, I'll admit that, but in the curent state, it's about as far of as ever), it should take these guilds, including us, about 10 seconds to beat them.
It's just not gonna happen with these Smiter, Me/Rt's, Rt/Me's being on par with... Well, simply not being on par with anything. They OUTCLASS any real person you can put on that bar.

YESH EVEN THREEPOUNDSMONKSFROMRAWRISNTASGUD!!!!!!!! (For the GvG shitters)

A real human simply can't Heal, Prot (TO an insane extend, what prots knows which target the enemy warriors is selecting?!), Shutdown (Infuse Health plox?) and mobility. (Try to bull's a hero NOT in aoe, yeah, not gonna happen)

fowlero · Dec 27, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I too would like to see these heroes blown up and thrown away.

I barely HA but when our guild goes in the amount of retarded teams that can survive longer due to these bloody me/rt super weapon asses is ridiculous.

The fact that as soon as you're about to eviscerate chain on the spike (or w/e you got) a weapon lands nearly every time is frickin' retarded, especially seeing as they got their usual monks too.

TheHaxor · Dec 27, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

bringing a Gwen with tease makes my balls wet though

I SAY KEEP HEROES FOR THAT REASON

Truegen · Dec 27, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

[Dent] a R10 experienced guild, aswell as keYs, leeloof's teams, etcs..., have SO MUCH TROUBLE simply beating a PvE guild that formed a teaseway. That's just redicilous.

If HA was about skill, and not about build (which it has never really been, I'll admit that, but in the curent state, it's about as far of as ever), it should take these guilds, including us, about 10 seconds to beat them.
It's just not gonna happen with these Smiter, Me/Rt's, Rt/Me's being on par with... Well, simply not being on par with anything. They OUTCLASS any real person you can put on that bar.

A real human simply can't Heal, Prot (TO an insane extend, what prots knows which target the enemy warriors is selecting?!), Shutdown (Infuse Health plox?) and mobility. (Try to bull's a hero NOT in aoe, yeah, not gonna happen)

Quoted for truth. Unfortunately, we all can't be as gud as GSB...but that's besides the point

You put it exactly right: When it takes teams with actual, honest to God talent 10+ minutes to beat some random guild whose KoaBD rank > Hero rank because they can add 2 heroes (mesmer or monk) something's reallll wrong

Still waiting for those real life "Player" PM's from Norgu, Gwen, Dunkoro, and Tahlkora...

Lomi79 · Dec 27, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

bringing a Gwen with tease makes my balls wet though

I SAY KEEP HEROES FOR THAT REASON

thread winner!

Ramod · Dec 27, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

14 Consecutive with balanced just 2 days ago (2W, Range, Dom, , SH and Rit)

Done, next task please?

...

We with [Dent] (We rolled top HA teams, so don't say we're bad at balanced, cuz then you're pretty much calling all these so called top HA guild terribad)

...

[Dent] a R10 experienced guild, aswell as keYs, leeloof's teams, etcs...,

LOLOLOLOLOL. Zomg R10 Experience!!!!!!!!

Ariena Najea · Dec 28, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

My first experience of the unfairness of heroes in HA was right around the release of Nightfall. Most teams brought a [Tainted Flesh] hero who would also bring minions and [death nova] or go /Me for interrupts. In either case, the AI flawlessly maintained Tainted Flesh on all party members, and never failed at its secondary purpose, the aforementioned death nova on all minions or interrupting spells on recharge. If a player whose tainted flesh is removed is still enchanted with something else, a human player wouldn't know without good communication. This doesn't even compare to the perfect death nova casting, anyone who has played an MM knows it's very difficult to deal with minions individually. And yet, heroes can outperform even the most experienced players.

I've never been a huge HAer, mostly because I started getting into PvP more after heroes were added to the game. I'm only rank 1 and I've never won Halls, but I've played my fair share of matches (though usually only getting past the Underworld) and have seen the shenanigans of heroes at work. I'm mostly a PvE player, and typically prefer H/H to taking PUGs, but of course enjoy playing with Guildies/Allies the most. Heroes are just about right in PvE; the ability to customize them is balanced by their inability to use PvE-exclusive skills and their reliance on human control. Interrupts can equally be achieved with henchmen in some areas, but generally devoting a bar to interrupts is a waste in PvE anyways. In contrast, the level of customization and ability to interrupt is equal in both PvE and PvP, and yet has fewer negatives in comparison to fewer players. Neither players nor heroes can utilize PvE-exclusive skills in PvP, and this causes a serious imbalance of power. I'm not suggesting PvE skills are implemented in PvP, or that heroes should be able to use these skills. Rather, there should either be some fair disadvantage of bringing heroes, or they should be removed from all PvP excluding Hero Battles obviously. I prefer the removal of heroes, because I have yet to come across any sort of plausible handicap for PvP heroes.

Reverend Dr · Dec 28, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Borat repeat after me, "Heroes are simply not fun to play against." Stop trying to act like they are all overpowered and superior to the best player in every role, but you, being the best HA player in the best HA guild (shout out to mah [Dent]'s!), still can beat them because you are not a scrub and still only scrubs loose to heroes.

If Anet still cares about this game, then enough people merely complaining that heroes are not fun to play against, they they will do something about it. Exactly like what they did to the 1+hero+hench that was seen in 6v6. If they don't care, well then do whatever, you're RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed.

Of course I really hate heroes because they are not players. I mean you can't trash talk to them, you can't get a rise out of them, and no matter how much you report them they don't get banned.

Bloodseeker · Dec 28, 2008, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

If Anet still cares about this game

Now thats a major problem

II disaster II · Dec 28, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truegen

This post is in no way saying "QQ Smiteway and Teaseway can't be beat",etc etc.....HA shouldn't be about "make a build that counters smiteway and go go go farm first 3 maps", it should be about "how can I make it to HoH and win".

seems like u still QQ about how to beat smiteway...and if u actually have a prob beating smiteway then i am sorry i cant do anything about it nor any other force...BUT still i dont see many r8/9+ smiteways do u?hmm..maybe all these r3/4+ will eventually see that farming 1-3 fame each run is no point after some time..And then again let them do what they want...I ve never seen myself failing against these kind of teams(that's my ego talking u can ignore that)and i dont think that any serious team would ever be beatten by this crap :/ .spike them down ..so simple..diversion/shame/shatter/rend are in the pd bar for a reason aswell...If any1 choose to play with heroes,it will be a disadvandage..ok Gwen can interrupt better than an average player..

So..basically let these r3/4+ run their smite/heroway...do your thing by beating them.and stop making QQ posts about heroes in ha.every1 hates the fact that npcs are playing instead of players,there is nothing new about it, but ppl will realize that this is not good at all..till then..let them lose.(that's my opinion at least)

Phe Belladona · Dec 28, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

m sorry but you do infact see a lot of r10+ teaseways because quite frankly they are better with warding than 99% of players in HA, they interupt faster than any human (tho they still arent better than a good mesmer they are serious spell defense) and they do it all without failing/raging/not listening. the bots are very powerful and not realising this is folly, they are cheating basically no human skill involved just very good results. the lack in offense is then offset by over powered frontline chars - im looking at you palm sins. (and dont say these things arent over powered cause if they werent you wouldnt see them EVERYWHERE and at all levels)

Rydia Merchan · Dec 28, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Its pretty hilarious (and sad I might add) to watch Gwen in an HA match. When you see any enchant icons on the red bar, she IMMEDIATELY removes them at light speed, faster than any human player could ever dream of.

Heroes are insane in PvP...with taint, rend, death nova...but in PvE Zhed meteorshowers a lvl 5 polar bear. That's GG.

All humor aside...its PVP = PLAYER VS. PLAYER. I agree that heroes should not be allowed in PVP because they are not PLAYERS. If you want to fight AI, go PvE. Of course the PvE AI is laughable, but its AI none the least.

shoogi · Dec 28, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

@Monk Gsb

[tease][power drain][drain enchantment][signet of humility][weapon of shadow][protective was kaolai][weapon of warding][death pact signet]

You wanna enlighten us about how this bar can be effectively countered?

moko · Dec 28, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

@Monk Gsb

[tease][power drain][drain enchantment][signet of humility][weapon of shadow][protective was kaolai][weapon of warding][death pact signet]

You wanna enlighten us about how this bar can be effectively countered?

echo blackout

omg noob

Truegen · Dec 28, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by II disaster II

seems like u still QQ about how to beat smiteway...and if u actually have a prob beating smiteway then i am sorry i cant do anything about it nor any other force...BUT still i dont see many r8/9+ smiteways do u?hmm..maybe all these r3/4+ will eventually see that farming 1-3 fame each run is no point after some time..And then again let them do what they want...I ve never seen myself failing against these kind of teams(that's my ego talking u can ignore that)and i dont think that any serious team would ever be beatten by this crap :/ .spike them down ..so simple..diversion/shame/shatter/rend are in the pd bar for a reason aswell...If any1 choose to play with heroes,it will be a disadvandage..ok Gwen can interrupt better than an average player..

So..basically let these r3/4+ run their smite/heroway...do your thing by beating them.and stop making QQ posts about heroes in ha.every1 hates the fact that npcs are playing instead of players,there is nothing new about it, but ppl will realize that this is not good at all..till then..let them lose.(that's my opinion at least)

1. Please read all posts thoroughly before adding your 2-cents. I never claimed I had trouble beating Smiteway; rather, I discuss what a pain in the ass it is...actually I don't really even say that about Smiteway, I said that about Teaseway and that Smiteway wasn't even really my concern. Please don't read one post in the middle of a thread and jump in, kthx

2. You clearly don't HA as much as you think you do if you claim no r8/9+ teams run Smiteway or Teaseway. Obs halls matches or get to/past Golden Gates consistently...you'll find your r8/9+ hero'd groups

3. I'm entitled to make whatever post about heroes participating in PvP that I want. Nothing gets done by being passive-aggressive and "hoping" for a change. Please don't insult me by claiming this a QQ thread when you add nothing productive to it in any way

dan daze · Dec 28, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

/signed, Izzy needs to do some skill balancing not 90%buffing and 10% nerfing.

Also hero AI needs to be nerfed, having a target being warding'd/shadowd while your arrows are in the air is RIDICULOUS. Also getting teased while using a quarter second cast by a mesmer hero...

Either significantly nerf heros to human capabilitys or dissalow them from HA

Ok Izzy? LISTEN TO THE FRIGGEN PLAYERS FOR ONCE!